Making Sense of David Goggins

My insights and reflections on the Huberman-Goggins interview.

Have you heard of David Goggins? Chances are you have, but if you don’t know who he is, here’s a quick overview.

Goggins weighed 300 pounds when he decided to enter Navy SEAL training. He endured incredible physical and mental challenges to complete the training and went on to become the only member of the U.S. Armed Forces to complete SEAL training, Army Ranger School, and Air Force Tactical Air Controller training.

He has written two books, Never Finished and Can’t Hurt Me. He’s well known for sharing his philosophy on how to master the mind. You can learn more about David at his website.

Full disclaimer here – I haven’t read either book. My only experience with David Goggins is listening to a few podcasts on which he’s featured, like this recent interview with David and Andrew Huberman on The Huberman Lab podcast.

As I was listening to this podcast, I couldn’t help but reflect upon some of his philosophies that I completely agree with and some that I simply don’t. I wanted to share them here today, so let’s dive in.

Carrot vs Stick

One of the main messages that David spoke about on the show was that he never wants to do what he is doing. He wakes up every day and essentially forces himself to do the things he has planned through more of a “stick” approach. He is generally tough with himself in his internal dialogue and doesn’t use the “carrot” of how good he might feel when he reaches milestones to motivate himself.

Photo by Thomas Gamstaetter on Unsplash

This approach clearly is very effective for David. One can’t argue that what he has been able to accomplish in his life is far beyond what most people are able to do. However, I don’t think the “Goggins method” works for all people. In my experience, the “stick” approach can be counterproductive. I fully support the idea that we have to be willing to endure discomfort to go after our dreams, but not to the extent that we need to have a harsh internal dialogue.

I know that my most powerful dialogue is supportive, encouraging, telling me that I can handle way more than I think I can, reminding myself that the pain and discomfort is where the true change happens. I also often remind myself of my “carrot” – how I will feel afterwards, that I don’t want to have any regrets, and the people I surround myself with who will help and push me beyond what I can do on my own.

This isn’t to say that the “stick” approach is bad or wrong for everyone, but it certainly would not create the same results for me that it has for David.

Do you resonate with more of a carrot or stick approach?

Willpower

There was a fascinating discussion during the podcast about willpower, and specifically about a part of the brain – the anterior mid-cingulate cortex (mACC). Andrew Huberman told David about recent studies on this part of the brain that show that the mACC grows in scenarios where a person does something that they don’t want to do. This part of the brain is involved in persistence and willpower and is also associated with preventing age-related declines in cognitive performance.

“The [mACC] is smaller in obese people; it gets bigger when they diet. It’s larger in athletes, it’s especially large or grows larger in people that see themselves as challenged and overcome some challenge. And in people that live a very long time, this area keeps its size.” — Andrew Huberman, Ph.D. 

Here is a link to an article from NAD about aging and longevity that goes into more detail about this part of the Huberman-Goggins interview (I’m including this link as a reference for more information; I do not support NAD).

Photo by Robina Weermeijer on Unsplash

I’m personally interested to learn more about the mACC, and I do believe that we develop tenacity and capability when we do things that we don’t want to do. However, I think the key is that we actually WANT to do them, or at least want the benefit of having done them – we just may not want to do them in the moment or at all.

While David Goggins’ willpower may have helped him achieve his goals, willpower may not work for most people long term. It’s often not sustainable, particularly when combined with a “stick” approach.

This is where I think it’s important to understand your “why” – your reasons for wanting, or not wanting, to do something and liking your reasons. We can’t just force ourselves through things day after day and think that we will keep doing it, especially with food. If you are trying to use willpower to eat a certain way, but you aren’t addressing the other factors that are behind binge eating (discussed here), willpower will never work long term.

What do you think about willpower?

Cleaning Cupboards

Towards the end of the interview, David talks about the importance of listening to all of your internal voices. He says that many people don’t want to hear those voices and do everything they can to avoid them. However, it’s important to “clean out the cupboards” by going in and seeing everything that’s inside to decide what you want to keep and what you want to toss, even if it those voices come back the next day.

I agree with David here. He mentions that most, if not all, of his voices are mean and harsh. That isn’t the case for me. I have lots of mean and harsh voices, and I also have plenty that are scared or full of doubt. The more that I encourage and support myself, the more voices I find that are nurturing, encouraging, and supportive.

I believe that whatever you focus on expands. If you only focus on the harsh and critical voices, you will simply find more and respond to yourself harshly. It seems like this is what David does, even though it’s hard to argue with the level of success he’s had at whatever he’s set out to accomplish.

I don’t think it has to all be hard and harsh. I do think that in order to achieve big goals, you will absolutely have to endure hard things. You will have to do what you don’t want to do, but I think this can be done with kindness, encouragement, and support from yourself and the peoplee you surround yourself with.

The Pendulum

I often talk about the pendulum when it comes to food. Many people are either “off” or “on” with their eating. It’s a direct reflection of black and white thinking.

Photo by engin akyurt on Unsplash

The David Goggins method seems to fall on one end of the pendulum: it’s all hard, it’s all stick, every day sucks. I just can’t get behind that. What is the point of achieving massive goals if none of it is enjoyable?

I also don’t think the other end of the pendulum is a great life either – one where you don’t set goals, don’t push yourself, and don’t try to do things that scare you or make you uncomfortable, completely coddling yourself and letting yourself do anything and everything you want despite negative consequences.

I think there is a beautiful balance where you can go after your goals, do hard things, push yourself beyond what you ever thought capable, and also encourage and support yourself along the way. You know when to be firm with yourself and you know when to be gentle. Some days are really hard and some days are amazing. Life is just more interesting this way!

I’d love to hear your thoughts – about your own approach to your goals or about David Goggins. Let’s discuss in the comments!